I was looking into running a parametric analysis for daylight and energy by integrating the HB[+] for daylight and HB legacy for energy.
Time ago I gave it a try with the legacy version for both daylight and energy and after the daylight analysis you can output schedules for shadings and electric lighting that you can feed into E+.
I saw that in HB[+] there is the option for shading but I could not see any component to have the output for electric lighting usage.
How can I outcome this issue?
Is there the possibility to use a component like the one in the picture? (form HB legacy)
You can generate the lighting schedule with Honeybee[+]. Pick a sensor and connect it to dynamic blinds schedule component. It both generates the blind schedules and calculates the total illuminance for the sensor. You can use total illuminance values to generate a lighting schedule.
Daysim has built in control types but Honeybee[+] gives you the freedom of creating your own. See 3-phase sample file to see how the components are used in action.
Thanks @mostapha! I will look into it as soon as possible. If I knew it before!
In DAYSIM I used to use for example the manual control (lightswitch model if I am correct) that uses a model that resemble the behaviour of the occupants (like sometimes they forget to turn off the light, etc…) Is this model, or other models used by DAYSIM, available to use in HB[+]?
No, and it’s intentional. One needs to understand how the behavior algorithms like lightswitch in Daysim works before using them.
That’s what I meant by Honeybee[+] giving you the freedom to creating your own. We may re-implement similar algorithms to Honeybee[+] but it will be part of the interface and flexible to review and modify if neccassary. In my opinion implementing a behavior algorithm based on some field studies in a number of offices without giving the user the choice to modify them or visualize the decision making process is not the best approach.
thanks for your answer. It makes perfectly sense what you say.
As you already did for HB (here or here), would you say that it could be useful to provide a workflow where it could be seen the integration of daylight and energy with the components of HB[+]?
I know that still there is no energy components for HB[+] but for the time being
most of all it would be very interesting to see how to set up correctly the shadings to calculate sDA as per this and this discussions; how to generate a simple lighting schedules based, for example, on a minimum illuminance threshold; how to feed all this info into Eplus, and see how to manage the integration of geometries in HB[+] and in HB.
Hi @Federico587, I agree with you that we need to provide more example files. Let’s see when I get a chance to put a sample together. In the worst case scenario I should be able to cover all these items in the next release.
I am currently facing the same challenge mixing HB legacy version for Energy sim and HB+ for its DDay simulation possibility (instead of annual simulation, which is too long to incorporate inside an optimization process)
So as far as i understand it there are the 3 steps i should be doing to mimic the old Daysim lighting control + Annual profiles workflow to inform Energyplus simulation correctly :
0_ Get the illuminance values :
either from a) from a sensor point with the dynamic shading component from HB+
or b) from averaged values of the analysis grid output of the DDay daylight simulation i’m already using
1_ Create a custom CSV schedule from these values that (in my case) mimic the On/Off + dimming strategy of the old Daysim component.
2_Create an additional string to the energy plus component with a Light Object and the right syntax in order to - specify the electric power and other thermal specs of my lighting system
- assign my schedule to this Light object
Question :
for 1_ my lighting schedule : since i’m only performing a one day only simulation, should i create a “false” schedule with the same day repeated 365 times to mimic a year one or can i just create a one day schedule only as a constant schedule for instance ?
for 2_ Light object : am i right that there is no other way currently with HB+ to precise any of the lighting system specs ? This is the point i doesn’t understand in this thread which implicitly says that just a csv schedule creation can replace the old workflow but without any way to implement light power, distribution etc…
Thanks for taking the time to have a look on this !
After you create the csv file you can assign the csv as lighting schedule in your energy model. No need to create an additional string input.
You can also create a daily schedule but since you use the csv format, Honeybee expects an annual schedule for 8760 hours. You can just put 0 in hours that won’t be part of the simulation.
This will be part of your energy model and not the daylight model. In Daysim light power values are simply used to multiply with number of hours that you need the lights on to estimate the electric lighting energy use. There is no real light fixture modeling in Daysim.
Thanks for answering.
But i still don’t understand how the Energyplus component will be able to guess my lighting specification only from my CSV schedule …
To my current understanding, my csv schedule generated after daylight study only gives information about the beginning and end of the lighting period each day, thus the qty of hours to light up the space, and the percentage of my lighting system to use hourly (to mimic the dimming control).
But i still don’t know how to provide the specs of my lighting system to EnergyPlus for the energy simulation without writing an additional string.
In my specific case, i am modeling greenhouses with artificial lighting to grow specific crops and i need to compare for instance a lighting system with Hight Pressure Sodium lamps to one with advanced horticultural LED fixtures.
Since they have major differences in terms of light footprints, power consumption by fixture and radiant heat, i really need to inform the energy model about the average electrical consumption by square meter of each system and the corresponding radiant heat specs as defined here : Light object …
… and the only way i found to achieve this so far is to use an additional string with E+ syntax to create a Light object corresponding to my light system (i have previously calculated from manufacturer’s informations the average electrical power needed by square meter for all the system from the fixtures’s footprint and other specs and my light needs) and to reference my schedule in it with the proper Design Level Calculation Method (Lighting level in my case).
Am i missing something else in the current available HB components that could replace this process or is this the good way to achieve my needs ?
@edwinszabo, why don’t you open a new topic with a simplified sample file and we can continue the conversation there. This question will get lost here.
Here I have a question based on what you said, considering a dynamic simulation for shading systems that are changing on hourly basis (a responsive skin), the process to involve its impact on daylight and then on energy is known …but what about the incoming solar gain ? or in more detail on thermal comfort?
I mean we are changing a shading system hourly which we can see its effect on daylight , artificial lighting through sensors and then integrate it with energy simulation process by new lighting schedule … but it did not consider the possible variation of solar gain which in the algorithm, HBContext component has the duty to do that as far as I understood. How can we approach it?
