VizThermalMap values issue

Plotting the values from the output of the VizThermalMap component show that all grid points are receiving the same value. The colors seem to be correct but the values not.
The image below shows this. I marked in red one specific room (the smaller one) to compare the plotted and the calculated results from the comfort simulation (First column).

Any ideas?

Hey @AbrahamYezioro ,

Because I have not yet integrated surface view factors into the longwave MRT calculation, the current microclimate maps are using the room-averaged surface temperature (weighted by surface area) for every single point within a Room. So this means that, for nighttime hours, you will get the same operative temperature for each and every point in a room. When the sun comes up and the shortwave solar beings to affect the MRT, you will see the variation that you expect but the simplified longwave calculation is the reason why the operative temperature at midnight looks the way that it does.

I know that the simple longwave assumption is a major limitation at the moment and this will change once I figure out how to get point-to-surface view factors out of Radiance. I have been educating myself about this by implementing the “Point-in-Time” Radiance recipes and I think it’s still feasible for me to implement the surface view factor calculation before the next stable release. In the meantime, it’s probably worth highlighting that the temperature variation you would see from view factors to different surfaces is MUCH less than that which you would see from shortwave solar. So I would still hold that the current LBT thermal maps are more accurate than Legacy because the shortwave calculation of the LBT plugin is greatly improved and accounts for reflected solar.

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Hi @chris,
Still wonder if your explanation covers why ALL zones are showing the same value number even though that the colors are different.
I believe the numbers are taken from the first zone on the list (checking the results csv files). In short i think there is a problem in the calculation of the values output in the VizThermalMap component.

Thanks a lot!

Ah, sorry that I did not understand. The values output from the component seem correct to me but they are flattened so maybe you didn’t flatten the list of points so that they would align with the output values: (71.8 KB)

Let me know if there is something else I am missing.

This is absolutely correct. Everything fine now and looking forward to the implementation of the view factors.
Thanks @chris.

Hi @chris,
One more question, not directly related to the topic.
I want to check the IDF created and used for the comfort simulation. I noticed that it is deleted (?) from the simulation folder.
To overcome this i’m just writing the IDF with the ModelToOSM component.
Is this the way to go or do you have a better option?


Hi @chris,

I know that the simple longwave assumption is a major limitation at the moment and this will change once I figure out how to get point-to-surface view factors out of Radiance.

I’d be interested in helping test out that point-to-surface view factor method with Radiance if you’ve got one working. If not, I’ve got something similar built using vwrays and rtrace, counting the number of ray intersections with geometry to return a dictionary of {geometry_id: view_proportion}. Let me know if it might be useful.

Hi @chris,
Questions are piling here … :slight_smile:
I have one more for you. It is related to the use of blinds/shades defined in the E+ model and how they are interpreted in the comfort models calculations.
I’m suspecting that since they are not modeled with “real” geometry they are not taken into account. The reason of my suspects is that i’m getting weird results especially in summer time. I can see in the operative temperature results sun patches on the floor at times i defined the blinds are supposed to be closed. Not to say that the comfort results are “not good” - 0 comfort all the period i tested (extreme hot week), on unconditioned spaces.
I’ll be glad to hear your view on this one.


All good questions here and they are somewhat related to one another so I give everyone a pass for not opening new topics.

You are correct that the recipe only keeps the files that it needs in future steps. So the IDF and OSM are currently deleted after they are created inside the temp folders out of which the energy simulation runs. Only the eplusout.sql is copied to the simulation folder since that is all that is needed to provide the air temperature/humidity and surface temperatures for the comfort mapping step. If you think it would be really helpful for debugging, I’m open to editing the recipe to have it copy one of the two energy simulation input files (either OSM or IDF) into the simulation folder before it deletes them. But I would like to avoid copying both since they contain very similar information and they can take up a lot of disk space if we always keep them for every comfort mapping simulation. Am I correct in assuming that you would rather have the IDF copied instead of the OSM? Also, using the “Model To OSM” component should give you an equivalent IDF and OSM so your current practice is good.

We currently don’t have support yet for dynamic modifiers in honeybee-radiance. However, @mostapha is working on it and we at least know how dynamic objects should be representing in HBJSON format and in the radiance folder structure. Still, this means that dynamic window constructions (HB Window Construction Shade) are currently accounted for in the energy simulation (longwave MRT and air temperature) but not in the shortwave Radiance simulation of the thermal maps. We are planning to add support for dynamic Radiance modifiers in the next few months and you should see it in release notes when we finally get there.

Lastly, thank you for the offer of help, @tg359 . Your method sounds like it will be useful for certain cases but I am currently leaning towards using rcontrib to help compute the view factor for each surface geometry. This is particularly so because Greg just removed the restriction of 9999 as the maximum number of rcontrib modifiers. So we could use it now for large energy models with more than 9999 surfaces. I’ll definitely let both of you know once I have something to test.

Hi @chris,
Thanks for your prompt answers. They are good for me.

Right now i’m using the Model to OSM as you said. Glad it is a good practice. If it is not much trouble, i think keeping the idf would be nice.
As for the Window Construction Shade your answer is exactly what i was hoping for. Of course it would be nice to have now but it is ok that it will be. I was just wondering whether you are going to consider the scheduled shading materials for the Radiance part of the simulation. Now that i know you are, i can be more comfortable.
Thanks again,

Ok, I opened an issue about copying the IDF file to the simulation folder and I’ll try to address it when I get the chance:

And you can definitely rest assured that dynamic constructions are on our agenda. We also have plans to support more than 2 construction states (for both energy and radiance), which should be coming to fruition in the next few months.

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